Whats up with Oahu real estate? Can you own land?
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Puerto_Rico_Surfer
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Whats up with Oahu real estate? Can you own land?
Some one please explain to me what is leasehold and fee simple, can you ever own the land you "bought" outright. Or is it actually someone else's. I think I read someplace that all the land in Oahu is owned by like 8 families, estates, or corporations, or something like that?? IS this true? And if it is , the Hawaians got SHIT on, now I think I know why the dont like "haoles", since it was their islands to begin with before being stolen in a sense. Is there anyplan to fix the situations for the people of hawaii or are they always gonna be stuck living on someelses land paying "rent".
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maleko
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Puerto_Rico_Surfer
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solar
as a somewhat successful hawaiian local, i resent the fact that people who SHOULD NOT move here are moving here.
who should NOT move here? first off, people with a lot of money. way back when, it wasn't hard to find affordable rentals and homes for sale. then, sometime i the late seventies or early eighties, FOREIGNERS (haoles for locals) started buying up all the fucking land. this drove the damned price of houses from $150k to 300k, putting a home out of reach for all but the richest locals.
the average joe caNNOT afford a house in hawaii, unless he curtails all his leisure spending, and gets a second job. we can attribute this to OUTSIDERS wanting to BUY LAND in hawaii.
now, if i were to buy land in japan, it's my understanding that i'ld have to pay phenomenally, because i'm an outsider. rightly so. why ain't it that way for hawaii? GREED. we, our own selves, are selling out. shit, in my neighborhood alone, i'm surroundede by people who didn't grow up here. makes me wonder where all the folks i went to school with are living. my guess is they're part of the brain drain: anyone with half a brain would NOT live in hawaii due to the outrageous costs...
if i were to guess, the hawaiian demographic will be 50% richbitches, and 50% poor folk, with noone inbetween. we'll see a growth in poor and rich families, with a decline of the middle class.
why? greed. it causes us to sell our very land out from under our feet.
please, if you don't live here, do NOT move here.
another case in point: KAUAI average median home price far exceeds oahu's. how can that be, when there are n jobs on kauai? simple. alot of rich motherfuckers who don't need to work are moving there. driving the prices up and up. meanwhile, the locals, with no job, are PUSHED BACK further DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN.
i am NOT ashamed to be saying these things. i realize what i'm saying is NOT pleasant, but the truth hurts. our politicians, civic leaders, and landowners SOLD OUT.
who should NOT move here? first off, people with a lot of money. way back when, it wasn't hard to find affordable rentals and homes for sale. then, sometime i the late seventies or early eighties, FOREIGNERS (haoles for locals) started buying up all the fucking land. this drove the damned price of houses from $150k to 300k, putting a home out of reach for all but the richest locals.
the average joe caNNOT afford a house in hawaii, unless he curtails all his leisure spending, and gets a second job. we can attribute this to OUTSIDERS wanting to BUY LAND in hawaii.
now, if i were to buy land in japan, it's my understanding that i'ld have to pay phenomenally, because i'm an outsider. rightly so. why ain't it that way for hawaii? GREED. we, our own selves, are selling out. shit, in my neighborhood alone, i'm surroundede by people who didn't grow up here. makes me wonder where all the folks i went to school with are living. my guess is they're part of the brain drain: anyone with half a brain would NOT live in hawaii due to the outrageous costs...
if i were to guess, the hawaiian demographic will be 50% richbitches, and 50% poor folk, with noone inbetween. we'll see a growth in poor and rich families, with a decline of the middle class.
why? greed. it causes us to sell our very land out from under our feet.
please, if you don't live here, do NOT move here.
another case in point: KAUAI average median home price far exceeds oahu's. how can that be, when there are n jobs on kauai? simple. alot of rich motherfuckers who don't need to work are moving there. driving the prices up and up. meanwhile, the locals, with no job, are PUSHED BACK further DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN.
i am NOT ashamed to be saying these things. i realize what i'm saying is NOT pleasant, but the truth hurts. our politicians, civic leaders, and landowners SOLD OUT.
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Bud
- Supreme Overlord
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In answer to your question, yes you can own land in Hawaii. As far as the U.S., leasehold ownership is an antiquated form of property ownership that is pretty much uniquie to Hawaii. The vast majority of sales here are fee simple.
Fee Simple, you own the land and any improvements on it.
Leasehold, you own the improvements (if any, e.g., house, condo et.)) but you lease the land it sits on. This makes the property much more 'affordable', but you must pay lease rent to the land owner, typically you pay semi annually. The lease will have a start and an end, and usually has scheduled rent increases set up over the period. Many old leasehold sales wrttien long ago are getting close to the expiration date, theoretically, the lessee must give up the property and any improvemts at the end of the lease. Leasehold property loses some value each year the lease expriation approaches.
It can be quite complicated and for many years there have been on going court battles to force owners to sell their fee interest to lessees
Fee Simple, you own the land and any improvements on it.
Leasehold, you own the improvements (if any, e.g., house, condo et.)) but you lease the land it sits on. This makes the property much more 'affordable', but you must pay lease rent to the land owner, typically you pay semi annually. The lease will have a start and an end, and usually has scheduled rent increases set up over the period. Many old leasehold sales wrttien long ago are getting close to the expiration date, theoretically, the lessee must give up the property and any improvemts at the end of the lease. Leasehold property loses some value each year the lease expriation approaches.
It can be quite complicated and for many years there have been on going court battles to force owners to sell their fee interest to lessees
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Puerto_Rico_Surfer
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who should NOT move here? first off, people with a lot of money. way back when, it wasn't hard to find affordable rentals and homes for sale. then, sometime i the late seventies or early eighties, FOREIGNERS (haoles for locals) started buying up all the fucking land. this drove the damned price of houses from $150k to 300k, putting a home out of reach for all but the richest locals.
Solar, first off let me state something I WISH I WAS RICH. I deliver the mail, I am a mailman, one of the shittiest jobs you can do for a living, on average every month I work 3--six day weeks and one week of 5 days (just to sleep and recover), I work an average of 56-to 68 hours a week ( I dont even know the fucking meaning of a 40 hour work week), it sucks to deliver mail when it rains (especially here because almost all routes are walking routes not the driving kind), everybody thinks your holding their check in your bag and not giving it to them, if any letter goes missing customers blame it on the mailman--not realizing that during the process of going from point A to point B at least 15 different individuals or machines handle it, the postal service monitors our time down to the minute---thats why mailman tend to give quick short answers and try to move on when delivering--its not cause we want to be rude, just if we are late we have to explain our selves to the boss. And I could go on with a long list but I am not just take my word for it, the JOB SUCKS the only reason we do it, is cause the pay is good, so are the health benefits, and the retirement's not that bad either. PLus you can request transfer to any station as long as there is an opening with a good chance of it being approved, allowing you to have a job where ever you go--case in point me wanting to go to Oahu.
2nd thing I want to point out, and if I am wrong please correct me...
Yes the incoming foreigners do contribute to this problem of land being so expensive, but.... the main problem is not the current haoles but your original ones. The large private holdings by the big 6 or 7 estates and their not wanting to sell leaving very little land available for sale. This is a problem that the state of Hawaii has to deal with. This land should actually just be taken back by the state, since it was stolen in the first place by the missionaries and the early companies.
3rd you complain about home prices of 150K to 300K, give me a break and thanks for the laugh. Dude why dont you come to Puerto Rico, you cant buy a home anywhere halfway decent bigger than 3 bedroom on a 2000 square foot lot for less than 300K. The only place you can get something any cheaper is in some shit hole barrio (ghetto) or way out in the country with a 1 and a half hour commute each way in traffic jam. In the country you can pick up a home for about 90K to 180K depending what the community is like and size home. (See this is where a major problem arises for you guys is the land that isnt for sale by the big landholders) while here we dont have that problem. Anyway getting back to home prices a 1 bedroom CONDO on the beach facing the ocean, at least 350K facing the street 225K, and a 4 bedroom 800K to one mill. Just checked it in the paper.
A half mile off the beach same apt. for the 1 bedroom 240K facing ocean 190K away. 4 bedroom 375K facing 320K away.
I live on an island that is roughly a quarter (if that) bigger than Oahu in square milelage, but our population is over 4.8 million and that is the official estimate in the latest census here, that doesnt account for all the illegal immigrants coming over on boats from haiti, dominican republic and other various islands around us. The unofficial estimate is they number anywhere from 125,000 to 400,000. Puerto Rico is one of the densest places in the world for population per suare mile if I remember correctly we rank #8 in the world and they did a study and we have 2 cars for every person on this island, LOL. Amazing huh 2 cars a person. With a shitty mass transit system. Thats probably why there are more Puerto Ricans living in the states than here. 8 million at last count living on the mainland.
Solar, I am not trying to "get in your face" just want to set you straight, you dont have it that bad, other people have it worse.
We have a saying in Spanish which I'll quote for you in English "Some people are like little babies they scream when you stick it in, but they cry when you pull it out"
how it applies to you, I dont know exactly but it just seemed like the right time to quote it.
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solar
oh, i'm so sorry, rican surfer.
let me fix it then, okay?
oh, everything is fine here on oahu, just perfect. come on over , move in, make house. plenty of room for everybody!! no place is better than here!!!
bring your freinds, family, dog, and everything else.
btw, know what the problem with the world is? p[eople always want something that belongs to someone else, already. NOBODY owned land in old hawaii, it belonged to everyone. same with the indians and aborigines in oz. land ownership is a concept brought to the "new lands" by the europeans, people intent on explore, invade, conquer. the story of the earth.
everybody stay home, and fuck that up, not some far away place. i'm sorry, but ANY travel taints the "new place". btw, "new place" is relative. the new world was the old world for indians. the fucking conquistadors put an end to that.
EVERYBODY STAY HOME, AND WORK ON THAT. WHEN YOUR OWN HOUSE IS HUNKY DORY, THEN YOU CAN GO TRAVELING. know why the europeans were so intent on world exploration? because their original intent was the next step, which was conquering. burn, rape, pilfer, pillage, and plunder. history is FULL of the same old story. but, history is written by the victors, so we only get the sugar coated schoolbook version, to make bwana look decent and civil. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
so, from a standpoint of one who is descended from the opressed peoples on this planet, i say stay the fuck home. ever been to kwajalein??? the marshall islands??? the reason i ask is if you have, you'ld see the latest in conquer and screw up the peoples. the only reason we're there is to blow the place up. atomic bomb tests, and missile targeting testing....
just take a look at the people of the marshalls. take a GOOD look.
progress is good? i think not.
let me fix it then, okay?
oh, everything is fine here on oahu, just perfect. come on over , move in, make house. plenty of room for everybody!! no place is better than here!!!
bring your freinds, family, dog, and everything else.
btw, know what the problem with the world is? p[eople always want something that belongs to someone else, already. NOBODY owned land in old hawaii, it belonged to everyone. same with the indians and aborigines in oz. land ownership is a concept brought to the "new lands" by the europeans, people intent on explore, invade, conquer. the story of the earth.
everybody stay home, and fuck that up, not some far away place. i'm sorry, but ANY travel taints the "new place". btw, "new place" is relative. the new world was the old world for indians. the fucking conquistadors put an end to that.
EVERYBODY STAY HOME, AND WORK ON THAT. WHEN YOUR OWN HOUSE IS HUNKY DORY, THEN YOU CAN GO TRAVELING. know why the europeans were so intent on world exploration? because their original intent was the next step, which was conquering. burn, rape, pilfer, pillage, and plunder. history is FULL of the same old story. but, history is written by the victors, so we only get the sugar coated schoolbook version, to make bwana look decent and civil. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
so, from a standpoint of one who is descended from the opressed peoples on this planet, i say stay the fuck home. ever been to kwajalein??? the marshall islands??? the reason i ask is if you have, you'ld see the latest in conquer and screw up the peoples. the only reason we're there is to blow the place up. atomic bomb tests, and missile targeting testing....
just take a look at the people of the marshalls. take a GOOD look.
progress is good? i think not.
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HM
Views
Land on O'ahu, anywhere on this chain of Islands is scarce ( as with any island ) and there is the rub.
Limited in exsistence, but great in desire. What is the root cause of inflated prices? Go figure. No simple answers, 'cause there are a whole lotta variables to the equation. We can see blame cast to a myriad of causes, plans, deviant ways, etc.
I am Hawaiian. But like around 300% of us, mixed up united nations list, kinda Hawaiian. If there is a race, I am on the list.
Generally, my Great (X4) Gramps came from Pico, Azores on a whaling ship. Jumped ship, worked for a land owner on Maui, married a pure Hawaiian, and raised a whole bunch of us in Kaupo, Maui. His Ahapua'a went from the crater to the sea. A whole lotta land.
Fast forward to the present. I work 2 jobs, my bride works over 90 hours per week. Just making ends meet. I own my house. And the land under it. Do I wish it were easier on the whole of our society? Shit, yeah. Not just meself, but everybody out there.
I guess bottom line is that we all gotta do what we gotta do, be it working numerous jobs or whatevas, to keep up with our stoke. It aint easy. We all know that.
For whateva it is worth, my own view is that the more you have to sacrifice in hours to work, the more worthwhile and valuable your surftime is.
Peace. ( and yes the Southy seems to be coming )
Limited in exsistence, but great in desire. What is the root cause of inflated prices? Go figure. No simple answers, 'cause there are a whole lotta variables to the equation. We can see blame cast to a myriad of causes, plans, deviant ways, etc.
I am Hawaiian. But like around 300% of us, mixed up united nations list, kinda Hawaiian. If there is a race, I am on the list.
Generally, my Great (X4) Gramps came from Pico, Azores on a whaling ship. Jumped ship, worked for a land owner on Maui, married a pure Hawaiian, and raised a whole bunch of us in Kaupo, Maui. His Ahapua'a went from the crater to the sea. A whole lotta land.
Fast forward to the present. I work 2 jobs, my bride works over 90 hours per week. Just making ends meet. I own my house. And the land under it. Do I wish it were easier on the whole of our society? Shit, yeah. Not just meself, but everybody out there.
I guess bottom line is that we all gotta do what we gotta do, be it working numerous jobs or whatevas, to keep up with our stoke. It aint easy. We all know that.
For whateva it is worth, my own view is that the more you have to sacrifice in hours to work, the more worthwhile and valuable your surftime is.
Peace. ( and yes the Southy seems to be coming )
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Guest
Its easy to make a blanket statement regarding people coming from the mainland, they all suck, ruining the aina...man solar, you must hate me listening to what you just said.....Good thing about the USA, we have freedom regarding THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, Any american can go anywhere in the usa they want to freely, period. There are no laws against it
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solar
damn right we have the right for the pursuit of happiness. i myself fought for that freedom.
HOWEVER, it is NOT right if that pursuit steps on other less fortunate people.
what i'm saying is, just because you CAN, don't mean you should invade anothers paradise. think of the one who was there before you? or not. if you don't, it speaks heaps about youse. it's called selfish.
all i'm saying is we, as humans, should learn from our not-so-pretty past. the history of the world is one of oppression and strife, caused by one race wanting what another possesses.
is it wrong to be consideratew of others??? therein lies the answer to the worlds problems, noone has any consideration for the other guy, just himself.
me? i do NOT travel anymore, simply for that reason. i do not want to be instrumental in the invasion of others home paradises. i HAVE a conscience. if you don't that's up to you. i will not judge you. free country, thank JAH.
HOWEVER, it is NOT right if that pursuit steps on other less fortunate people.
what i'm saying is, just because you CAN, don't mean you should invade anothers paradise. think of the one who was there before you? or not. if you don't, it speaks heaps about youse. it's called selfish.
all i'm saying is we, as humans, should learn from our not-so-pretty past. the history of the world is one of oppression and strife, caused by one race wanting what another possesses.
is it wrong to be consideratew of others??? therein lies the answer to the worlds problems, noone has any consideration for the other guy, just himself.
me? i do NOT travel anymore, simply for that reason. i do not want to be instrumental in the invasion of others home paradises. i HAVE a conscience. if you don't that's up to you. i will not judge you. free country, thank JAH.
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Guest
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Puerto_Rico_Surfer
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BTW in my previous post I wasnt looking for solace nor was I unhappy bout my situation, yeah my job sucks, but I do love my job cause it isnt the job that is bad but the supervisors, its a good job and I am happy to have it. As for Puerto Rico-- for all its problems it is still a wonderful place. Actually I just want to come to Oahu for a change of pace, maybe for a couple years, or maybe for my whole life who knows? Though I am afraid I will miss my island very much, so probably after a few years Ill move back, truth is if I could go anywhere Solar I would not come to Oahu, my first choice would be BALI or maybe Costa Rica (due to the latin in fluence) but alas there are no US post OFFICES there
Solar you should stop looking at the glass as being half empty, and start looking at it as half full. Be grateful for what you have and not unhappy for what you feel is being taken away from you or what you could have had and you will be a much happier person.
Let me pose a question to you, and please I sincerely want you to think, and give me a well worded answer back. No name calling , no anger, just a straight forward discussion. If you could fix everything, state the problem and the solutions. The foreigner problem as you so love to put it, crime, realestate, infrastructure, economics, job etc, please tell me in your perfect world how would you fix everything. We all know there have been injustices done so how do you fix it. (shit I'll even give you a magic time machine so if you could pick a part of history you could change--concerning hawaiin islands only---you then have that ability-- though then you also have to take into account the changed future and the possible outcome. Eg. If hawaii would have been independent proir to world war 2, japan might have invaded to set up a forward base of operations vs the US and then you would have had subsequent fighting there, possobly ending up a protectorate like micronesia, just an example so you get where I am coming from.
Just saying "Go home haole" is not a solution--its nothing-- cept someone screaming "go home haole".
Because just bitching about it without offering any true solution just makes you a whiner that is part of the problem.
Solar you should stop looking at the glass as being half empty, and start looking at it as half full. Be grateful for what you have and not unhappy for what you feel is being taken away from you or what you could have had and you will be a much happier person.
Let me pose a question to you, and please I sincerely want you to think, and give me a well worded answer back. No name calling , no anger, just a straight forward discussion. If you could fix everything, state the problem and the solutions. The foreigner problem as you so love to put it, crime, realestate, infrastructure, economics, job etc, please tell me in your perfect world how would you fix everything. We all know there have been injustices done so how do you fix it. (shit I'll even give you a magic time machine so if you could pick a part of history you could change--concerning hawaiin islands only
---you then have that ability-- though then you also have to take into account the changed future and the possible outcome. Eg. If hawaii would have been independent proir to world war 2, japan might have invaded to set up a forward base of operations vs the US and then you would have had subsequent fighting there, possobly ending up a protectorate like micronesia, just an example so you get where I am coming from.
Just saying "Go home haole" is not a solution--its nothing-- cept someone screaming "go home haole".
Because just bitching about it without offering any true solution just makes you a whiner that is part of the problem.
Last edited by Puerto_Rico_Surfer on Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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solos
fair enough...
1- land ownership/ problem: outsiders driving up the price of everything here. proposed solution: tax the shit out of anyone trying to buy land who is NOT a native of the state. birth in the state would be the only allowed landowners... wanna own land? do what the missionaries did, marry a local hawaiian... btw, places like korea and japan have taRIFFS ON FOREIGN GOODS, SO THE PRICE OF AN AMERICAN CAR IN VBOTH OF THOSE COUNTRIES IS OUTRAGEOUS. but only in those countries. do the same thing here. keep the foreigners from owning land that should go to the children of the land.
2- haw3aiian sovereignty/ problem: the last queen of the islands was ousted by the united states marines, under the guidance of the wealthy haole landowners... solution: way back then, the us governmentshoulda restored the throne to it's rightful owner. then, they coulda worked on it being a protectorate, like puerto rico. at this point, the us government doesn't even admit they fucking ousted a queen from her throne. they even put her under house arrest for the remaining years of her life. talk about oppression??? just cause they had the fucking money and guns?
3- limit the amount of people able to live on the island problem: overcrowding, causing a shortage of housing, infrastructure cannot support the population, water shortage? more like too much people for the amount of water the island provides. solution: population limitations!!!! more for everyone, in the end. less traffic=less accidents.
4- legalze gambling for educational funding.- it worked in georgia. if'n youase had a b average and maintained it, college is free from the state. fully funded by the georgia lottery. btw, hawaii has the highest per capita rating of gamblers in the us, yet we send all our money to vegas. then when someone talks of legalizing gambling here, it gets knocked down. i believe the folks from vegas got some hawaiian politicians in their pocket.
howz that for starters?
1- land ownership/ problem: outsiders driving up the price of everything here. proposed solution: tax the shit out of anyone trying to buy land who is NOT a native of the state. birth in the state would be the only allowed landowners... wanna own land? do what the missionaries did, marry a local hawaiian... btw, places like korea and japan have taRIFFS ON FOREIGN GOODS, SO THE PRICE OF AN AMERICAN CAR IN VBOTH OF THOSE COUNTRIES IS OUTRAGEOUS. but only in those countries. do the same thing here. keep the foreigners from owning land that should go to the children of the land.
2- haw3aiian sovereignty/ problem: the last queen of the islands was ousted by the united states marines, under the guidance of the wealthy haole landowners... solution: way back then, the us governmentshoulda restored the throne to it's rightful owner. then, they coulda worked on it being a protectorate, like puerto rico. at this point, the us government doesn't even admit they fucking ousted a queen from her throne. they even put her under house arrest for the remaining years of her life. talk about oppression??? just cause they had the fucking money and guns?
3- limit the amount of people able to live on the island problem: overcrowding, causing a shortage of housing, infrastructure cannot support the population, water shortage? more like too much people for the amount of water the island provides. solution: population limitations!!!! more for everyone, in the end. less traffic=less accidents.
4- legalze gambling for educational funding.- it worked in georgia. if'n youase had a b average and maintained it, college is free from the state. fully funded by the georgia lottery. btw, hawaii has the highest per capita rating of gamblers in the us, yet we send all our money to vegas. then when someone talks of legalizing gambling here, it gets knocked down. i believe the folks from vegas got some hawaiian politicians in their pocket.
howz that for starters?
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