Buy Pics of Yourself Surfing?

[Bud]

wow neo is that you at age 15 after a big garden isle doobie ?

ahhwooo! LOL

[Kelly7873]

I vaguely recall reading something about the basic legal aspects of the whole public picture taking thing. Along the lines of, if you're doing something in a public place, you open yourself up to being photographed ... but must have permission to use for commercial purposes...? any lawyers out there?

I did a little web research during my feud with JB and what I found out was that a photographer can shoot anyone he wants to in a public place or a private place with the owners permission and then sell the photos to whoever they want. The photos can't be embarrassing or misleading. They can be published in a book, newspaper, magazine or web site but the can't be used for advertisement. Putting someone's photo on the front of a book or on the home page of a web site could be called an advertisement for that book or web site. That's about the only place where JB may be pushing the law a little. They don't even need permission to take and sell photos of minors. The laws do vary by state and I couldn't find anything specifically about Hawaii.

[Kelly7873]

A funny thing happened because of my feud with JB. I'm getting ready to paddle out and a wife of one of JB's customers comes up to me and tells me her husband can't be seen talking to me because they NEED those photos. I guess they were working on a big sponsorship deal.

I'm curious still, how much of a demand there really is, are people paying the bucks for the pics, enough to break even, maybe make profit? I give JB credit for being among the first locally to go head first full abandon into it though, the money for cameras, equip & PC's .... time spent editing, posting and all. But I could think of few worse things than sitting on the beach or in the lineup taking surf photos, all day, then go surf it too.

JB, seems to be doing quite well, upgraded his truck, expensive new boards, new equipment all the time, prime living locations. I would of thought that after everyone got a few pictures of themselves his business would taper off but it doesn't look that way. I think some guys have to get a 2nd job just to pay for their photo addiction. I think without a doubt that his web site has added to crowd at Jocko's, the easiest example is when he paddles from Chun's to Jocko's and 5 to 10 LB'ers come with him. I think it could get worst too if he ever starts selling some of his photos to the magazines. When people thing their going to be a star they turn into assholes.

[Thebigz0]

I love seeing pictures of myself bodyboarding. Luckily I've known the photographers pretty well who have taken my picture.
It was seeing myself in the picture below that stoked me out and made me want to buy a cam and a water housing in August to take some pics of my friends...
I'm planning on building a website for my photos. Not interested in selling shots of random people... although I would put up the very nice ones for sale. I usually get better pictures of empty waves, riders just mess it up most of the time. I like the artsy fartsy shots.
More power to the guys who can make a buck off of surfing. Its a great lifestyle.

Photo by Jordan Murph.

[HMARK]

This is great thread. What a topic. I really wonder what fence I am on. I have not 1 photo of meself surfing. for some reason, I like that. Not that I dont WANT one. I would love disect what I think I am doing on a wave. Maybe I'd quit. Then there would be more for others.

Cant really say the increase of photogs are affecting me and my surfs, but by the looks of some of the sites, It looks to be a circus. I think that is prolly not for the best - wannabes, inexperienced, unsures, Out-of-thereleaguers, assorted riff-raff and floatsam. More often than not, I am avoiding the worst crowds at tha best spots. Oh well.

Innaressing the by-product of K7873's feud with JB, how the experience of that resulted in more info for him. Cool. Must be nice to have all those upgrades. Working all the time you figger it aint worth your while to blow a few bucks on a photo. I guess if a lucky shot comes my way, right on. If not - - I got memories that NO photo can repeat or replace.

I think Owl Chapman said something about that in Surfers the Movie, but I cant remember the line- I think it was pretty good 'tho.

With the amatuers ( more like pros with the quality ) like Bud, Neo and company, I think the stoke is a lot larger than with the commercial stuff. Tighter shots. More dedication to the spirit of the wave. More at risk. $ as well as body. Shows more heart for the subject matter. Like a artist, the thought is there, not just the rote movment of execution. The boys do a fine job of lighting a stoke for me. 2-3 pix, nuff. No need look thru 950,000 shots for a 'stoker' shot. They post the best, not the total.

All in all, who the heck am I to say? I can barely type correctly, and linking pix is absurd for me to try. Double thumbs, am I. Shoots then, I guess.

[Jahsurfs]

Good points everyone. I think the reason I associate the picture taking and the internet is because of the mass distribution and "quick" fix it gives. If the normal person had to physically call, order, drive to pick the photos up without seeing them first, it would be less of an attraction. Where as someone goes surfing at jocko's, goes home logs into their computer and BAM, a perfect picture of a barrel the go this AM. It's too easy and creates and easier 'hype'. I'm not for or against the photographers by the way, or the internet for that fact. It is what it is and I can't stop it by being bitter. I just accept it.

I may also be biased because several of the local san diego websites combine their pictures with a surf report. So you have a very fine line of people checking the site for their pictures and a surf report. It's really intertwined in a business sense in several websites in California. They do the normal surf report (which they charge a monthly fee for) But then they also set up some photographers at certain locations on decent days in addition to the surf report. But in order to see the photos from their "expression session" you have to be a member, pay a monthly fee, get to check the surf report, pictures, forecasts, etc...

Just my thoughts that the next step for these photo guys (when they get their full business plan kicking) is to add additional services where they can make money. What is the next logical thing for JB to do? Get 3 or 4 guys under him running around getting photos, upload them to the internet every morning by 7am and then go out and do his usual business of taking pictures and selling them. He will make double the revenue by being able to charge a monthly fee for the surf reports and then the photos on top. I see their business progressing in a similar line but maybe a few additions/subtractions along the way.

I thought of a business plan back in 2000, which it was still relatively new to the surf/photo scene. Of buying an underwater cam, going to the local beach in the summer and doing the same thing. Sell those photos for a set price. The next step was to take reservations for a group of people if they wanted 3 or 4 buddies to rent a photographer for an hour or two and have a set rate. The next step was to grow the business to the point where I could have a small surf shop with this photo business running out of as well and having 3-4 underwater cams to rent if people wanted a cheaper route and take their own pictures. (Very hefty deposit required). I never followed through and realize I should have based on the businesses that are now implementing the ideas I had 4 and 5 years ago. Oh well...

[Jah]

and yes, I love seeing pictures of myself on a nice juicy wave. Absolutely but like bud and others mentioned it isn't anything without the perfection of mother natures energy in the spot light. otherwise it would just be a photo of me and i can get one of those in my kitchen if I need.

[Sokiak2]

I never understand why those websites/photographers take so many pictures of the sponsored guys. Every time you check nspp or hawaiian watershots there is about 50% sponsored guys. And you know Mikala Jones, Dustin Quizon, etc. don't buy photos of themselves...it seems like a waste of money and time. They should just shoot normal guys, like us, who would drop $20 for a good photo of ourselves. Obviously, they can't ask everybody, oh are you sponsored/would you buy a photo/etc. But if I was a photographer I would just shoot normal guys and if I got a good shot of somebody, I would note it down(notepad nearby) and if I saw the guy getting out of the water or in the parking lot, I would say "hey check http://www.wannabephotog.com, I got a good shot of you."
It would only seem natural to hustle like that if you were doing it for money...as a business.

And for the record, I like seeing shots of myself, I just haven't seen a shot worth buying yet...they always catch me digging a rail or about to eat it.

[Bud]

exactly whati had thought about also, sokiak. That's why when I saw that photog set up on top of his van with his camera and a sign promoting his website ("see pics of yourself at gallery808.com"), I thought - he knew where the money would likely be

[surfcityphoto]

OK now I know I'm going to get hammered for this but here goes anyway. Yes I am a surf "snap shot taker" on the mainlaind in California. I admit I am not a photographer, I need to focus on the finer skills (sorry for the pun) I've been surfing since 1962 so I am in to the photography thing because it's fun and it still allows me to enjoy surfing without risking life and limb in the frigid closed out, blown out conditions in Northern Calif. My picture run from $6-$12 which is not a rip off.

Here on the mainland there have been several surfers tell me that they have been surfing for years and never got a decent photo of themselves so they see my taking pictures of non-pros as a service. I have about 20 pagers I call when I go out because people love to have pictures of themselves surfing.

I don't divulge secret spots and I won't sell a picture that someone decides they don't like. I eat the overhead cost and refund their money.

Anyway I posted a question on this BB a few months back and got my ass kicked from almost every reply. So it'll probably happen again. I just want you guys to know, I have a deep respect for surfing and will not go where not welcome.

Too many uptight people in O'ahu. Someone said on this thread that they should get together and jump photographers who are taking unsolicited pictures. That sounds like a real smart thing to do.

Aloha

Don

[HMARK]

Anyway I posted a question on this BB a few months back and got my ass kicked from almost every reply. So it'll probably happen again. I just want you guys to know, I have a deep respect for surfing and will not go where not welcome.

Too many uptight people in O'ahu. Someone said on this thread that they should get together and jump photographers who are taking unsolicited pictures. That sounds like a real smart thing to do.

I dont think you got your ass kicked at all in this thread, I think alot of the time, it was positive for the Photog POV. Obviously you must have a deep respect for surfing, its culture, and its idiocyncrises. Surfing since '62 puts the whole HISTORY almost at your door step.

So that said, I would imagine you would know that the tribe consists of many sects. And within those sects are those who dont like photogs, the recent upwelling of them in the water at the primo moments of a swell. The impact ( real or percieved ) that they have on a session.

Yes there are too many uptight people on O'ahu. It would be a lame thing to jump photographers, legal wise, as well as karma wise. There has to be somewhere else to surf if it rakes you that much.

I have taken photos for Buds site (sorry Bud) and the quality while EEEEEWWWWWWWW, was rancid, the stoke is there. Isnt that what we are here for? Photog, surfer, Boogieboarder, bodysurfer, diver, grom, oldfut, whatevas.

Here for the stoke.

2 cents of drival from part oldfut, yet still grom.

[surfcityphoto]

No it wasn't this thread I was talking about. Anyway thanks for the positive reply.


Don


"I want to get my kicks before the whole shit house blows up in flames"

J Morrison

[Adder]

aww surfcity they just thought it was funny u were asking where to take pics!

[Jah]

Bud and Sokiak, more of a question than a statement. What if JB is actually trying to appeal to the sponsors of Mikala, Dustin, etc..? If one of their sponsors sees a great pic, they might be inclined to buy the rights to the pic to publish it in a mag. I know one of my friends sponsors pays the photographer $500 for an average mag shot and up to 2g's if it's going in Surfer or surfing mag. It's only a guesstimate though.

[solobone2232oc]

got some really good ones on super bowl sunday at pupukea and there was a photog on the beach......didn't bother to ask who he was...checked the usual suspects....jb, ns power port, gall808......any others i might check??