Free Diving - Rock Carry - Training thread

[surfer9joe]

Im going to open a thread for free-dive and training questions....

I'm gonna hit the Cove or Waimea for some beginner free dives and rock carries around two, call me if interested. I am taking some of my wives friends who want to learn...

[Sokiak1]

I do it in my buildings pool.
I bought some Nike aqua tread shoes and some weights from the dive shop.
I run the width of the pool(about 25 feet).
Someday I hope to run the lenght(93874928374 feet, I dunno).
People in my building think I'm a wierdo.

[LGREANZ]

How about the north shore swim series ??

they have 4 events.

25 bucks each, you get a t shirt for each event, and prizes if you place in your age group.

1st event Sunset to Ehukai next Saturday 9 am
2nd event Haleiwa to Puena Point and back.
3rd event 2000 meter swim at Waimea Bay.
4th event 2.4 miles Ehukai to Waimea.

you gotta sign up by satuday or each event is 35 bucks, and you dont need to compete in each event.

heres the link but my comp isn't opening it for some stupid reason:
http://www.hawaiiswim.com/

[Guest]

is anybody doin the paddle board race from turtle bay to sunset this weekend on saturday?

[surfer9joe]

I was wanting to but I dont have a paddleboard

[Kelly7873]

Training by carrying rocks underwater looks cool in the movies but I always consider it way too risky. I think it's far more dangerous then big wave surfing due to shallow water blackout.

Shallow water blackout is the sudden loss of consciousness caused by oxygen starvation. It usually happens when the diver is nearing the surface because as you rise the air in your lungs expands and what little oxygen that is left isn't able to pass to your blood, oxygen could even be sucked from your blood back into your lungs. More experienced divers are more susceptible then beginners because they can overcome their urge to surface. Exercise greatly increases the risk. Just because you have someone watching you don't think you remove the risk. CPR in the real world doesn't work like on Bay Watch where after 20 seconds the victim wakes up, coughs up a little water and is good to go. If you get to the victim within a few seconds of passing out he may just start breathing on his own but when water hits the back of the throat the larynx locks down tight making CPR very difficult especially out in the water. If water does enter the lungs you're in deep trouble, even if CPR gets enough air into your lungs to keep you alive your lungs will be damaged and you're looking at a long hospital stay. I've seen lifeguards perform CPR three times, twice they said they got the victim breathing again but all three died.

I say endurance breath-holding should never be done underwater. Training underwater is good because it builds confidence and could help you fight off panic in a big wave situation but I think you should stay well within your limits.

Anyways that's just my 2 cents. Getting killed carrying a damn rock around the bottom of the ocean has no less meaning then more "noble" purpose like flopping down a big wave or climbing a stupid mountain, things I'll been known to push my limits on.

[Willie Maunawili]

that's a good point - look at what happened to Jay Moriarty.

i used to lifeguard at a city pool and we were told not to let anyone practice breath-holding with weight belts in the pool - someone had died at Manoa Pool by shallow water blackout - the lifeguard never even noticed that the guy never came up.

you could probably get the same lung capacity by running, swimming, and doing yoga and meditating. also, driving through the H-3 tunnel and holding your breath

but i imagine free diving sharks cove and running around the bottom with rocks is more fun.

[welsh_olly]

I'm with you guys on that one, but i think if you train with another person who stays on the surface and you watch each other the risk is definitely reduced.
it is great training for staying relaxed underwater, since it's often panic that kills. Also hyperventilating is the killer as it prolongs the urge to breath, but does not prolong the ability to stay conscious. If you hyperventilate enough, you force the body's natural urge to breath beyond the body's ability to remain conscious, hence blackout.
but my point, in a long winded way is. Don't do it alone!!

[megaprober]

as a firend of the author and a past and present participator in the rock carrying at sharks cove, i have to admitt that the shallow water blackout has always been a concern of mine. when we first started doing it last year we found that after 2-3 times we were able to get down 35ft and begin the rock carry. the usual problem i found was just gettin down there because that was the difficult part. once on the bottom i found you had a new sense of comfort once you got your attention away from the just getting down and now on the rock. this was the part i found both awarding yet nerve wracking because i knew that i was at the limit of my air. i guess i am wondering what is the best way to prepare for a deep dive? all in all i found that my confidence went up in larger waves because our breaths would last near 1 minute much longer than any usual holdown, although when your scared and exausted 10 seconds can be a lifetime. hopefully this teaches you that there is still air left even at the most dire moments.

[olly]

I was taught to avoid hypervetilating (i'm welsh_olly), but taking 2-3 deep breaths is ok and won't push that urge too far back. it makes you feel like you cant' stay down as long, but this is an illusion, you just feel like you want to breath earlier. being comfortable with this feeling is really good training.btw i'm not an expert by any means, just passing on knowledge that i was taught during a diving class.
Like you said MegaP after only a few dives you can get pretty comfotable down to about 30+ feet

[surfer9joe]

We always try to go in groups of at least 3 people, to make sure one person has O2 and is ready to dive down and help. True I hope we never have to do CPR, but it may happen. I usually stay within a comfort zone anyways, I dont push it that hard, only what feels natural.

Of f the reasons I swear by the rock carry is it gives you mental confidence, You can remain calm during a big wave hold down because you have been that deep before, but for longer. Being able to relax even more when you feel the o2 running out is part of that.

I read Cheyne Horan trains by expelling all the air from his lungs, going down for 20-50 seconds, up for a breathe, then repeat. Haven't tried it yet though...

[Guest]

s9j, just thought I would warn you about the expelling the air before you go down.
Apparantly that is the most dangerous thing to do and leads to a lot of black outs, or so I read. not an expert on it or anything.

[LGREANZ]

I've tried carrying the rock under water and it is tough, I can only take a few steps. I think i'm paranoid of the the shallow water blackout and it increase my panic level and i end up burning the oxygen in my lungs too quick.

I'll take a few breaths dive to the bottom, come up to the surface swim a few strokes, take a big breath and go back down.

Do this repeatadly and it kinda simulates getting worked by a set.

I think the best training for surfing is swimming in fresh water.
It s so much more work than swimming in the ocean.

If your surfing Jockos or Himalayas and your leash snaps and you lose your board, how you gonna get to the beach ?

[maleko]

How long can you guys/wahine hold your breath????????????????


For my training, I bike in the highest gear up the valley roads, jog down valley roads, do some beach runs, swim many hours (not sure how far I go, but I'll swim for at least 3 hours), and I pactice yoga. Yoga teaches you how to respond in stressful or difficult situations. They have breathing exercises that help increase your lung capacity, and the poses I concentrate on are the balance and strenghening asanas. Before yoga I could hold my breath for a minute, now I'm up to 2 mins.(underwater)

I am capable of doing hard poses like this one...


Disclaimer*** I'm not a vegan, or Hindu. Kelly Slater supposedly practices also

[HMARK]

Good points all, training is the mode I choose. Run, run, and run somemore seems to be OK for breathing extension/capacity for me. Luckily, I can train run at work. (alarms not withstanding)

Cross training (swim, run, bike, lift) has mucho advantages. Never did the rock bit, and not planning too, but caution be the main aspect of ANY training.

On CPR - If you dont know how - L E A R N . The person you save more than likely will be a loved one. This is FACT. Washington state requires HS grads to know CPR to grad. There rescue rate for heartattacks is well above the national norm. Our schools should do the same. Like Kelly said, H20 coming back at you is the culprit - clearing the airway FIRST is of utmost importance - Do it enough times, it all comes easy when you GOTTA do it....